Ilo Toerkell: Dua Saleh on I SHOULD CALL THEM you explore a wide vocal range. There are songs like “chi girl” with high-pitched, auto-tuned vocals alongside songs like “cradle”, which has rap parts and a deeper tone. Can you express different things through different tones of voice?
Dua Saleh: I think my gender expansiveness allows me free range to experiment with different spaces in my voice. The melodies I create are divulged out of me at the same time that I’m processing certain emotions. On “time & time again”, for example, I was thinking about a past lover. “cradle” is me processing what I saw on the news around the murder of George Floyd and remembering my activism around the school-to-prison pipeline. So, there are many different emotions that influenced the record. I was legitimately experiencing life-altering moments while writing this album. That contributed to the vocals.
Do you want to elaborate on what you just mentioned about the themes of “cradle” connecting to your activism?
When I was in my teens, I was organizing within my school and community around issues like the school-to-prison pipeline and environmentalism. In 2020, I was literally watching my city burn. There were actual tanks on the streets. It reminded me of my time in organizing and I was so proud of the youth that were out there working to ensure that they won’t have to exist in a police state. You know what I mean? I am at a point in my acting career and my music career where I am no longer connected to that organizing space as an organizer. Of course, I am always going to support my people but in a different way now. “cradle” was me witnessing and processing all of that.
Holding the Burden
The lyrics on I SHOULD CALL THEM explore love and relationships from various angles. Some longing, some lustful.
Yes, when I was writing this record, I was on my first EU and UK tour ever. So, I was running around thinking about my ex. I didn’t have time to process, and my body was just feeling things. I was crying, sobbing maniacally about my ex – as queer people do when they’re met with the love of their life. Writing this album was therapeutic. It allowed me to figure out my human emotions. At the same time, I was filming “Sex Education” where Cal is also reckoning with their identity and relationships. It was an intense emotional time.
Another core topic is environmentalism. What’s your understanding of it?
To me, environmentalism means holding sacred space for my indigenous roots and my care for the earth and for people. That aligns with all social justice issues. One of the lines in “cradle” that stuck out to me now, talking about this is: hold the burden, I’ll abstain. The line is about environmental degradation and our destruction of the earth.
We need to finally and collectively pick up the burden of ensuring that there will be a livable earth for people and the next generations to exist in. Environmental justice is a huge narrative builder for any social movement because it affects the very space people exist in.
Do love and longing have something to do with environmentalism?
Single Cover of “pussy suicide”
There is a lot of toxic love on the record as I was trying to figure out how to not be with toxic people and how to not be the toxic one. That is related to our relationship to Earth, which is also toxic. Even like literal toxic. We’re not appreciative of her. We don’t care much for Earth even though she’s our mother and what keeps us alive with oxygen, water, food, warmth. We are dependent on the earth to take care of us. So, we need to fix the relationship we have with her. Obviously, environmentalism goes beyond individual actions. Most people who are most affected by environmental disasters are not responsible for what is destroying the earth, it is a small percentage of people operating in this system.
Is that also conveyed in the futurist aesthetic of the artworks?
Yeah, I was thinking about this warped sense of self that humanity has developed while the earth is decaying. There is a denial of how we exist on Earth and how we are holding Earth’s hand, how the Earth is holding our hands as well. The hands on the cover reflect that and this digitized aesthetic with obscured parts of the body is an image of that toxicity. It’s also thinking about what this means for the future.
Should I?
What’s your take on the title I SHOULD CALL THEM why did you name it that?
It is a little cheeky. But the simple answer is that I think it is funny. It is kind of this old joke, this meme about seeing something that reminds you of someone. A suggestive object that makes me think: maybe I should call them, like. And low-key, I’m a meme lord. Sometimes you don’t have to be super serious as an artist. You don’t always have to think about the environment all the time. Sometimes you can think about your ex and wonder if you should text them or call them and see what’s up.
On Instagram, you also posted the song “Pussy Suicide” and that you wrote a song for transgender aliens.
Yeah, well I have to blame Donald Trump. He said something about these transgender aliens getting surgeries in prisons at the debate. He always talks about trans people. I think sometimes it’s good to laugh when things feel too scary. And sometimes people just want to see a meme.
Yes, this weaponizing of trans people for right-wing politics is something we observe all over. In the current climate of the US, do you feel there are changes?
Legislatively, we’re cooked. There’s no liminal space for trans people to exist, feel safe, feel happy. All these bills are being passed to prevent life-affirming health services and healthcare. Even the opportunity to play, do something as innocent as playing a sport. It is horrendous. I’m just scared. But the ways I can resist that sort of fear is by making sure that the kids who read my Instagram posts are able to feel joy for a moment. I hope they feel seen when I post an anime music video or anime clips. I hope they feel a little safer and warmer.
Do you think having a record like this or having a persona like you would have helped you as a kid?
Oh my god, yes, I keep thinking about that. If I had Cal, if I had myself as a singer when I was younger, my confidence would have skyrocketed. I would have been a completely different person. My anxiety would have been quelled a little bit more, maybe not completely because it’s in my body. I can’t take away the actual mental health issues that are genetically passed on, but I would have felt lighter, had more of a feathery step as opposed to feeling the weight of the world like every day.
Photo by Rhianna Hajduch
I’m optimistic for the future because so more trans roles are being written, and more queer artists are being introduced into the public realm. Having access to these artists and artistic spaces, that’s lifesaving and life-altering. I think it’s beautiful that I’m able to be a light for people in times of need just by being raw and honest and not filtering out situations of queer love.
Before the LP, you released “Daylight Falls” raising awareness for Darfur Women’s Action Group resisting the ongoing war in Sudan. You also said, “protest is in the spirit of Sudan”. How does this manifest in your music?
Sudan will always be present within me and my artistic footprint. I wouldn’t be myself without my culture, without my folks influencing how I perceive, theorize my gender, theorize my understanding of race and imperial entities. I wouldn’t be myself if it weren’t for the protesters and if it weren’t for people like the women at Darfur Women’s Action Group doing the work they do. So, I’m always going to bring up my people and disparities and issues like famine and war. We’ve been in the public eye for so long, but so little has been done to support people on the ground, to actually make sure that there’s long-term sustainable change. So alhamdulillah, when I have any opportunity to bring up Sudan I’ll always use it. For me, music and my platform are also ways to boost information about my country.
What’s one of your favorite things about the record you just put out?
One of my favorite things about the record is that there’s a streamline of RnB all throughout. I wanted to do a reconstruction of RnB as I’m processing my breakup, situationships, lovers, and stuff like that. I am also using RnB as maybe not a fun space, but as a space to play with concepts of environmental justice. This is my way of being mindful of Earth and ensuring that I am doing my part to make sure that she’s okay.
I SHOULD CALL THEM by Dua Saleh is out now via Ghostly International. Stay up to date with Dua Saleh via their Instagram and Website.